lindsey graham, saxby chambliss, bob corker and peter king, they've said they're willing to compromise and consider revenue increases to avoid the fiscal clifft. their shift in position has grover norquist vowing to help unseat any republican who breaks his taxpayer protection pledge. the question tonight is whether this is a larger trend or whether republicans are just testing the waters and two men who know about testing the waters, politicking and actually meaning what you say join me now. david frum and james carville, you have been on every side of this. let me start with you though david. republicans talking about raising revenue by closing loopholes. you can get a heck of a lot of revenue that way. is this smart for them r or not? >> republicans are going to be yielding grown, but they have to avoid it under pressure. president has a strong hand. they have to keep their party together. frankly, i think loopholes are the -- so-called loopholes, deductions for home mortgage, at this point, the wrong place to look for new revenue. the place is look is with different kinds of tax s.